Muthead

Must be a giants fan 

Quote from deweydecimaled >>

i miss the days when i could make a good faith argument that peyton manning is better than brady. it has been quite a few years.

 

however it will be hard for anyone to ever top peyton in the cerebral quarterback department. probably won't ever happen. offensive coordinator on the field. tom moore calling into his helmet not with plays, but with "concepts" with long strings of words and numbers, leaving peyton to make the calls on the fly based on the defense. i dont think anyone could ever read a defense better (too bad he didnt read tracy porter). those were some great years when the colts were elite especially the years when they had the whole top notch crew with manning, clark, marvin, and reggie. back before there was a red zone channel. being out of the colts market having sunday ticket was a must. only reason i had directv. sundays were awesome for a colts fan.

 

i still have the 2006 afc championship game as one of the greatest nfl games ever. i might be a little biased. i think people fail to realize everything that winning this game accomplished:

massive 2nd half comeback vs the goliath, colts crushing pats

peyton finally wins "the big one" after endless talk of how he's just a regular season qb and questioning him

finally a super bowl berth

beating the pats in a playoff game who always always had the colts number in the playoffs

and on a qb vs qb level, peyton besting tommy in a huge playoff matchup, when for the entire decade the #1 topic of discussion was about who was better between the 2

 

it really was a great game, and i think you dont even have to be a colts fan to appreciate it. it's one of only 2 games of any sport i will rewatch, the other being game 7 cubs over indians

 Gotta miss the Brady manning games for sure. The 2 greatest qbs of their generation and possibly of all time.

Most Ohio state qbs in years past have been scrambling and running qbs and converters postitions/ weren’t as good  qbs and Haskins is the complete opposite. I hate Ohio state but he has the best arm out of any Ohio state qb in many years. He was a steal for sure 

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Quote from gametyme89 >>

You say good coaches don't lose to garbage like that yet they beat the best coach in NFL history both times for their SB wins..

 

It happens.

Vince Lombardi has been dead since 1970, unfortunately.

 

.. 18-1 has a great ring to it, though, doesn't it?

 Vince Lombardi was a hell of a man and did a lot to help bring equality into the sport, but let's not act like the NFL was comprised of the best athletes as it is now.  Easier era to win and be successful in, in my opinion. 

 Less players on teams.. less teams in the League..quite possible the strongest rosters top to bottom in NFL history

 

.. and they competed for players against a legit, bonafide league before the Merger.

 

3-peat

5 out of 7

9-1 Post-season record

 

We'll never see that again.

 Incredible what he did but will we ever see anyone match BB success in a salary cap era 

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Quote from aarons444 >>

You say McCarthy was a good coach.. you provide no evidence that he was.

 

Not sorry that the facts prove that theory is incorrect.

 

.. as for the Giants.

 

2007 - 14th offense, 17th defense

2011 - 9th offense, 25th defense

 

Good coaches don't lose to garbage like that... and they certainly shouldn't be embarrassed by them, which McCarthy was.

 THE PATRIOTS LOST TO BOTH OF THOSE GIANTS TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND ONE OF THE TEAMS WAS THE 2007 PATRIOTS ONE OF THE BEST ASSEMBLED.

 

BY THAT LOGIC BELICHICK IS TRASH.

 

He's a pretty good coach, he has a winning playoff record and won a Superbowl.  Many coaches can't say that. Was his time up in GB? Yes.  Is he trash? No.

 In my eyes he was a good coach. Then the game changed and he didn't change with it, and that's when the problems started happening. The final straws, which were what got him fired, was his obvious lack of caring regarding the team, as well as the fact that he somehow failed to use Aaron Jones, a guy who once McCarthy finally gave a chance to led the league in YPC. There was an article I read a long time ago and probably couldn't' hope to find now, but it detailed how these past few years McCarthy was calling plays like it was still the 2000's, and wasn't keeping pace with the rest of the league at all as strategies on both sides of the ball got smarter and more intricate. Plain and simple, his way was best, and he was unwilling to change. And then of course the whole massage thing happened, which was incredibly disrespectful, and that made things even worse. it's like he lost his passion and drive this year, just didn't care anymore. So imo while he was a good coach back then, he wasn't one when he was fired.

 I won't argue that McCarthy was an offensive genius or what not, and like I said before I understand and agree with his firing.  Clearly he lost the team, but I also think that is because Rodgers isn't a leader either.  I think we exhausted that conversation though, and we will agree to disagree.

 

As far as offense goes, though, the Patriots don't run anything fancy and get the job done.  Brady makes smart decisions, finds his weapons, and isn't afraid to check down and live to fight another down.  

 Definitely, they're as plug n' play as they come, used a WR as their starting HB for a good part of the season for crying out loud.

 Umm.. did the packers not convert a WR to full time RB? 

 Converting is different, the Patriots took a WR, put him at RB and somehow made it work. But he was technically a receiver the entire time, compared to a player that completely switches positions.

He's not really a receiver though is he? He's a gadget player that can do whatever niche a team needs him to do. His career numbers pretty much prove that point. He has WR next to his name but he's not very well good at it. The Patriots found a way to use him in roles that more suit his strengths rather than forcing him to play a by-the-numbers receiver.

 

The Patriots get by putting players in the best positions to succeed. But they load up on specific talent to play specific positions. They put a premium on slot players with quick, agile feet over speed and size since they utilize that style of play a lot more in their offense. Only this year have they gone against the grain and drafted a bigger target with some speed... presumably to help replace Gronk within the offense. They also enjoy getting receiving backs over traditional running backs to add another receiving threat on the field for Brady to throw checkdowns too.

 

Not sure they could take a guy like Julio and just make him work automatically... I mean, Josh Gordon was relegated to slant duty during his time with New England basically. He had 2 routes in our offense. I would LOVE a Julio for sure.. just couldn't guarantee his success within our offense.

 

Chris Hogan had a good year, and has slowed down ever since because opposing teams realized how we were using him... so he became a body to put on the outside for the blocking purposes and wasn't used much after that. We have specific roles for the players moreso than plug n play.

 

 

I guess that has to be a knock on brees then. They literally plugged a QB in to play WR and other positions with Hill.  

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The Tom Brady debate depends on what you are debating. He is the most accomplished QB to ever live, and that is undeniable. Additionally, he connects with head coach Bill Belichick more than any other QB does with their head coach, and he runs/leads his team the best. He is more valuable to the Patriots than any other QB was/is to their team. However, he is not the most skilled, and that is what I classify as the greatest QB of all time. I do not classify the greatest as the most accomplished, or best leader for their team, or even the most valuable to their team, because a QBs team might naturally be a better fit for them, and that QB got lucky he plays or played for them. Being the greatest QB of all time means you are the most skilled; It means ignoring the team's system, the head coach, the teammates skill level, and teammate relationships and connection connections, you are the best QB. If you are the greatest QB of of all time, you could play on any given team, and perform better than anyone else. I do not believe Tom Brady fulfills this because he has the best head coach of all time to help him. Tom Brady is only elite at taking long possessions by throwing very short passes. They work, so I am not saying he should not do that. Brady does not care if he is not throwing tougher passes than anyone else; He just cares if they win, and the Patriot's win a lot. I do not believe Brady would be the most effective QB on any other team because without a scheme that perfectly fits his skill set, because he is not the best at throwing tougher passes. I am not hating on Brady, as I acknowledged he is the most accomplished and valuable QB to his team of all time, and that is all he or any QB cares about. However, he is not the most skilled QB, which means he is not the greatest QB of all time.

 By this logic he may not be top 100 of all time on your list?

 He is on my top 100 of all time, but if we are talking about pure skill, he is not in my top 10. The only thing besides throwing and running you should take into consideration when determining skill is leadership skill, because that is a huge skill, which is why I still consider him a ver skilled QB. He is still my most valuable player of all time, ad well as the most accomplished, which is what he cares about.

 Where do u rank jerry rice? Bc he is nowhere near the most talented WR ever 

Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>

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Quote from aarons444 >>

You say McCarthy was a good coach.. you provide no evidence that he was.

 

Not sorry that the facts prove that theory is incorrect.

 

.. as for the Giants.

 

2007 - 14th offense, 17th defense

2011 - 9th offense, 25th defense

 

Good coaches don't lose to garbage like that... and they certainly shouldn't be embarrassed by them, which McCarthy was.

 THE PATRIOTS LOST TO BOTH OF THOSE GIANTS TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND ONE OF THE TEAMS WAS THE 2007 PATRIOTS ONE OF THE BEST ASSEMBLED.

 

BY THAT LOGIC BELICHICK IS TRASH.

 

He's a pretty good coach, he has a winning playoff record and won a Superbowl.  Many coaches can't say that. Was his time up in GB? Yes.  Is he trash? No.

 In my eyes he was a good coach. Then the game changed and he didn't change with it, and that's when the problems started happening. The final straws, which were what got him fired, was his obvious lack of caring regarding the team, as well as the fact that he somehow failed to use Aaron Jones, a guy who once McCarthy finally gave a chance to led the league in YPC. There was an article I read a long time ago and probably couldn't' hope to find now, but it detailed how these past few years McCarthy was calling plays like it was still the 2000's, and wasn't keeping pace with the rest of the league at all as strategies on both sides of the ball got smarter and more intricate. Plain and simple, his way was best, and he was unwilling to change. And then of course the whole massage thing happened, which was incredibly disrespectful, and that made things even worse. it's like he lost his passion and drive this year, just didn't care anymore. So imo while he was a good coach back then, he wasn't one when he was fired.

 I won't argue that McCarthy was an offensive genius or what not, and like I said before I understand and agree with his firing.  Clearly he lost the team, but I also think that is because Rodgers isn't a leader either.  I think we exhausted that conversation though, and we will agree to disagree.

 

As far as offense goes, though, the Patriots don't run anything fancy and get the job done.  Brady makes smart decisions, finds his weapons, and isn't afraid to check down and live to fight another down.  

 Definitely, they're as plug n' play as they come, used a WR as their starting HB for a good part of the season for crying out loud.

 Umm.. did the packers not convert a WR to full time RB? 

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Anyone who defends Mike McCarthy;

 

I want to hear your commentary on his Playoff performances.

 

The man is indefensible. THE.SINGLE.WORST big game coach of all-time.

 

.. but I guess we should have expected nothing less from a Marty Ball protégé.

 I love Andy Reid, but he underperforms in the playoffs more than McCarthy did.

 The main difference is he's never had a QB like Rodgers. And he's been to way more SB's and CC games than McCarthy.

As Head Coaches, Reid is 12-14 in the playoffs with one SB appearance (loss). McCarthy is 10-8 in the playoffs with one SB appearance (win). Reid is clearly a better head coach, but he is very underwhelming in the postseason. 

4 of McCarthys wins were in the Super Bowl season.

 

McCarthy lost 5 Playoff games on walkoff scores. I can't dream of such a thing, let alone it actually being reality.

 

His Super Bowl win, his crew nearly blew a 21-3 lead. Rodgers had to run off a huge chunk of clock and engineer a scoring drive or this is as the original 28-3.

 

.. Reid has lost his share, but aside from the final Vet game, I can't recall too many black eyes like the ones McCarthy was given over the years. 

 Brady/Belichick won most of their Super Bowls by extremely tight margins hence the goat Vinatieri.  Doesn't take away from their legacy.  I don't care how you win the game, win the game.  This past Super Bowl was ugly, but it's still a Super Bowl win although neither team played exceptionally well.

 

I'm not defending that McCarthy shouldn't have been fired.  I've stated before, I think his time was up.  To act like he was Jeff Fisher or someone of that caliber is hilarious.  He still has a winning post season record and a Super Bowl win.

 

Andy Reid literally couldn't stop Derrick Henry from running the game out 2 years ago.  That shit was pathetic and embarrassing.  He has plenty of moments shitting the bed in the playoffs, but I still think he is a hell of a coach. 

 Andy Reid’s long history of clock management anyone lol

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Quote from Davante_Adams17 >>

• Lmao. Rodgers has had a top ten defense only twice. The first time they gave up 51 against AZ. He's had the Brees treatment. Funny you mentioned the 2009 Saints playoff run as well. You realize the Saints gave up more than 17 points in that playoffs only once in their three games right? It was 28 against Minnesota. Saints may have had a bad regular season defense but, playoff time they got it done. They actually gave up less points than the 2010 Packers if you comapre the final three games. 

Rodgers had a better defense than the Patriots this past year.  What's the excuse for this year?  All McCarthy? 

 i mean you can't compare the patriots and packers coaching staffs... pats have always had amazing coaches

 Are the coaches amazing or are they the product of BB? Few have success outside NE

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Sometimes I forget Brady has 6 rings. No other QB has more than 4, and this guy has 6. Crazy. 

 

As a stat heavy guy, Peyton is my 1a and Brady is my 1b. But it looks like it's going to change soon.

Patrick Mahomes? Need some context here.

 Pat mahomes? He’s a system qb. Andy Reid has had more success with more qbs than BB. He had farve, Vick, mccnab, foles- who all thrived with Reid and now Mahomes. Not sure how he isn’t considered a system qb

 Alex Smith was a system QB. Mahomes is a QB that can throw at any arm angle he wants to, with his opposite hand or without looking. He's not a system QB. Reid is an amazing QB coach, that's obvious, but that doesn't make Mahomes a system QB. I've never seen anyone do some of the things Mahomes has done, and he hasn't even played 20 games.

 Agree mahomes isn’t a system qb he’s very talented was just joking since Brady is bc cassel had little success with BB when farve, McNabb, Vick, Alex Smith, foles best years we’re all with Andy Reid which using the Brady logic would make sense for mahomes 

Quote from 26yearoldchild >>

Quote from Wepresidentnow >>

I don’t understand how people claim that Bill B made Brady but just ignore that Bill is 54-61 in games without Brady starting.

 

Then people will go to “but Matt Cassel”, while ignoring that Todd Haley won 10 games and went to the playoffs with Matt Cassel. 

 the reason the chiefs won 10-6 In 2010 is because Jamaal Charles ran for 1467 yards and averaged 6.4 yards per carry. he also had 45 receptions so there were a lot of check down passes.

 Cassel has moss coming off 23 TDS and pretty much the same team that went 18-1 ... as well as the #8 defense 

Quote from taterman >>

Quote from Socksfly >>

Sometimes I forget Brady has 6 rings. No other QB has more than 4, and this guy has 6. Crazy. 

 

As a stat heavy guy, Peyton is my 1a and Brady is my 1b. But it looks like it's going to change soon.

Patrick Mahomes? Need some context here.

 Pat mahomes? He’s a system qb. Andy Reid has had more success with more qbs than BB. He had farve, Vick, mccnab, foles- who all thrived with Reid and now Mahomes. Not sure how he isn’t considered a system qb

Quote from WaltzerWhite >>

The greatest QB could have been anyone in Belichicks offensive system. If it wasn't Brady, it'd most likely be whoever else was the QB for Belichick. Gotta respect the greatest coach of all time before you talk about his minions. 

 Great QBs And coaches go in hand. At the end of the day it’s BB putting his players in best position to succeed but it’s brady out there reading defenses, making pre snap adjustments, and executing the plays and making the comebacks. I think both would be successful without one another but not nearly as successful. And every team has a “system” 

Quote from gametyme89 >>

Not really excited about starting the season with this at TE:

 

• Austin Seferian-Jenkins
• Jacob Hollister
• Stephen Anderson
• Matt LaCosse
• Ryan Izzo

The position has been so important to the Patriots for quite a few years now.. so either there's going to be a transition into something new, one of these guys really has Belichick hopeful, or they have a plan to create a package to acquire a veteran TE who's already sitting on a team somewhere.

 

The rest of the roster is coming along very nicely. I'm very excited about our team's defense this season. The way we finished the season in the playoffs and the SB was amazing, and bringing back most of those guys, plus getting a lot of depth back from IR... high hopes!

 Heard rumors of OJ Howard and the Vikings TE as possible trade targets. 

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I defend the Sony choice. I can't defend this tho. RB is one of the few positions they don't need anything at. Michel, White, and Burkhead are a very good stable. We're gonna go into every game with 4 RBs active?

 

I don't like it.

 Honestly I’m 100% opposite, this is where rbs should go.  Sony had no business going in the first rd, and a lot of the same team needs were there last year.  I would’ve liked a qb too, but if he didn’t like one then there’s no point I guess.  Shows how much he liked jimmy 

 Agree. Imo BB would be killing this draft so far if he grabbed a TE. I was hoping for Jace or Irv lol. I think the kid from WVU could be a steal tho 

 They’re honestly probably gonna try and build an offense like the saints, 2rbs and receivers.  So we’ll see.  Idk anything about that rb they drafted but it’d help if he can be a threat receiving 

 He was an every down back I believe and a better receiver than Sony I believe. Think he had a 73 receiving grade and 85 overall or something according to pff