• posted a message on Vikings Discussion Thread: Dom Capers Added To Coaching Staff
    Quote from ZimTzu >>
    Quote from MrJ >>

    Kiper's new mock draft has us taking Antoine Winfield Jr. 👀🤔

     First round? No way, I could see day 2 him getting drafted.

     Yea, he has him ranked as his 10th best safety, but yet we take him at 25 as the 2nd safety off the board lol 🤷‍♂️

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  • posted a message on Vikings Discussion Thread: Dom Capers Added To Coaching Staff

    Kiper's new mock draft has us taking Antoine Winfield Jr. 👀🤔

    Posted in: Sports Discussion
  • posted a message on Vikings Discussion Thread: Dom Capers Added To Coaching Staff

    Kiper's new mock draft has us taking Antoine Winfield Jr. 👀🤔

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  • posted a message on Happy Last Day of Old Muthead People!!!

     

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  • posted a message on Vikings Discussion Thread: Dom Capers Added To Coaching Staff

    https://www.vikings.com/news/minnesota-vikings-all-decade-defensive-line-from-2010-19

     

    Linval and Kevin Williams at DT

    Jared Allen and Danielle at DE

     

    Shocked Everson wasn't in.  JA was a runaway #1 and Danielle edged Everson by 70 votes for the 2nd spot.  DE was so tough

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  • posted a message on Happy Last Day of Old Muthead People!!!

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>

    I still don't think people are understanding my points. This chat is definitely a clique, but man, I just must not talk like I think I do on here. I have conversations with friends, family and coworkers about this stuff nearly every day and it's way, way smoother. Friendly arguments, nothing beyond that. I don't want y'all to hate me, granted, I also don't care too much. The contrast just confuses the crap out of me.

     Your point is you don't think Dak deserves top of the market money because he's not as good as the other QBs at the top, and he shouldn't ask for more than what he deserves based on where he would rank on talent alone.

     

    Everyone else's point is Dak should get as much as he can, regardless of whether he's actually better than the QBs he'd be getting paid as much as or more than.  Nobody's disagreeing that Dak isn't as good as Mahomes or some other guys he'd be paid like, but we're able to separate our opinion on his talent and our opinions on his contract negotiations because they don't have to align.

     

    You say you understand the business side of it, but then want to judge Dak for making the best business decision for himself.  

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>
    Quote from Da_Rippa808 >>
    Quote from bowlerivory >>
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>
    Quote from bowlerivory >>
    Quote from ZimTzu >>
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>
    Quote from MrJ >>
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>

    I automatically don't like Dak because he's asking for more than freaking 33 mil a year. That's ridiculous for a guy who has won one playoff game. He's a good QB though. I just hate his attitude. Watson would never, and he deserves that contract more than Dak imo. 

     Dak would be asking for that much because he has leverage, and the market says he can.  Timing and leverage are always more important than anything in negotiations.  Why do you hold against someone trying to maximize their earnings?  How do you know Watson wouldn't ask for the same thing, if not more?  Houston is looking to extend him this offseason.  I'd be surprised if it's not for more than Wilson's deal.  Watson's agent has gotten deals that reset the top of the market at a position multiple times, so I don't think there'll be any discounts handed out (not to mention the fact Bill O'Brien will be negotiating the contract most likely, and he'd likely be out of a job it not for Deshaun so he'd be smart to just pay whatever it takes)

     I never said that Watson would take a discount, let me clarify. If Watson was in Dak's exact position with the exact same stats, in other words if he basically took his place, I think he'd take 33 mil a year. It's a character thing.

     

    As for Dak, what you're saying makes sense if he was one of the top QB's in the league, but watching him over the years I just don't think he is up there with the best of the best. I mean, we're talking a Wilson-like contract here. Do we really think he's as good as Wilson? Or Watson for that matter? I don't think so, and so I don't think he deserves as much or more than those two. But it's not up to me, and because they do want to keep him for life I wouldn't be surprised if he ultimately gets the deal he wants, and then it becomes a question of was it worth it, or did he just steal the team's lunch money.

     What has Dak ever done to be considered a person of low character or less character than Watson? Am I missing something here?

    Nope

     Please don't take my comment out of context. I think Dak is being greedy by asking for more than 33 mil. I think Watson would take that 33 mil (in the exact same situation as Dak), because he's proven to have not been greedy in the past. That's all it is. Maybe when it comes time for him to get his deal it'll turn out that he'll be just as greedy as well. But I remember him donating his first game check to cafeteria workers at NRG stadium, and that's just not something many players do or would even think of doing in general, and it definitely doesn't strike me as something someone greedy would do. Hopefully that makes sense.

     https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Article/Dak-Prescott-asks-fans-to-help-raise-money-for-cancer-research-121175763/

    https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4763863/dak-prescott-finds-perspective-in-moving-on-from-atlanta-loss

    https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/2019/04/10/cowboys-prescott-donates-kaalas-roots-fund/3429398002/

    https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/01/29/cowboys-quarterback-dak-prescott-donates-campbells-soup-miami-homeless-shelter/

    *Drops mic

     Fair enough lol. I shouldn't have brought Watson into this in that way. But I still think he's being greedy. And I don't think he deserves 35 mil or whatever when that might be what the QB who just had the greatest first two years of a QB 's career in history might end up getting. That's really all it boils down to. I've watched Mahomes, I've watched Watson, I've watched Dak. If anyone seriously places Dak at the other two's level, then I feel like we can all agree that that person is 100% being biased. So business aspect aside, because I get the "if he can ask for more, why shouldn't he?" question, do y'all really think he deserves the same amount of money as those guys, such as 35 mil? Because I don't. 

     What he "deserves" isn't really relevant.  Did Kirk Cousins "deserve" the first fully guaranteed contract in NFL history? Hell no. But leverage, timing and the market got him that.  That's all more important to negotiations than anyone's opinion on where he "should" rank in QB pay.  It's never going to align like the best QB gets paid the most, 2nd best the 2nd most, 3rd best the 3rd most, etc. Just ain't how it works

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  • posted a message on There Will Be No Raffles This Week

     

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from TheMaddenGuru24 >>

    I automatically don't like Dak because he's asking for more than freaking 33 mil a year. That's ridiculous for a guy who has won one playoff game. He's a good QB though. I just hate his attitude. Watson would never, and he deserves that contract more than Dak imo. 

     Dak would be asking for that much because he has leverage, and the market says he can.  Timing and leverage are always more important than anything in negotiations.  Why do you hold against someone trying to maximize their earnings?  How do you know Watson wouldn't ask for the same thing, if not more?  Houston is looking to extend him this offseason.  I'd be surprised if it's not for more than Wilson's deal.  Watson's agent has gotten deals that reset the top of the market at a position multiple times, so I don't think there'll be any discounts handed out (not to mention the fact Bill O'Brien will be negotiating the contract most likely, and he'd likely be out of a job it not for Deshaun so he'd be smart to just pay whatever it takes)

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from DarkPassenger >>

    I never meant to imply I think he is top 5. I definitely believe he is top 10. Would probably put him top 8 on my rankings.

     This has definitely veered into 2 different conversations. I said he played like a top 5 QB in 2019, which imo the stats support, but 2019 performance is all I've been referencing.  Discussing whether he's a top 5 overall and going forward is a completely different conversation and they're getting mushed together.  

     

    I'd probably put him at 6 if I were ranking going ahead behind Mahomes, Lamar, Russell, Brees and Watson.  It's Dak, Ryan and Kirk 6-8 in some order.

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from misk53 >>

    I could have sworn alternate accounts were not allowed on here, Mr. J might be Socksfly with that stat delivery!

     

    Side note: people say we don't use math often daily, but we just did in this thread! Boom!

     Laughing Socks is my idol. I'm definitely a stats nerd, pro-football-reference is my 2nd internet home after Muthead. Just wish I had more time to get in on discussions with in depth stats, but slow day at the office on a Friday before a 3 day weekend.  Can't say I expected to use the time on stats to support Dak Prescott, but here we are lol

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  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from saadmurt >>
    Quote from MrJ >>
    Quote from saadmurt >>
    Quote from MrJ >>
    Quote from Chasej3553 >>

    dak Is nowhere near a top 5 qb 

     Played like one in 2019. 4th in QBR, 1st in DYAR, 6th in DVOA, 6th in ANY/A, 6th in CPAE.

     

    Only other QBs ranked close to that high in all 5 metrics were Brees and Wilson.

     That's only against bad teams. Besides the Vikings game Dak didn't play like a top 5 qb against .500 teams or better until the fourth down 17+

    Dak in 1st-3rd QTRs:

    282/425 (66.35%), 3546 yards, 23 TD, 7 INT, 8.3 Y/A, 8.1 ANY/A

    Dak in 4th QTR:

    106/171 (61.99%), 1356 yards, 7 TD, 4 INT, 7.9 Y/A, 7.3 ANY/A

     

    Dak Leading or Tied:

    181/264 (68.56%), 2191 yards, 19 TD, 6 INT, 8.3 Y/A, 8.3 ANY/A

    Dak Trailing:

    206/331 (62.24%), 2703 yards, 11 TD, 5 INT, 8.2 Y/A, 7.5 ANY/A

     

    So Dak was worse in the 4th and when trailing, but all his stats were accumulated in 4th when they were losing big?

     

    The D in DVOA and DYAR stands for Defense-adjusted, as in adjusted to factor in quality of opponent, and QBR gives less weight to plays that happen when a game is out reach.

     Dak against the Saints with no Brees: 

    22/33 for 223 yrs no TDs 1 pick. Very avg game given every Saints fan swears their defense is ass. 

    Dak against the Packs: 

    He was down 31-3 mid way to the third qtr. Nuff said. Coulda threw for 5 picks.Had a 27 QBR at one point I believe

     

    Dak against the Pats:

     

    Scored 9 points the whole game and wounded up 19/33 for 212 yrds and 1 pick. About a 100 of those yrds came up in the 4th qtr when he couldnt buy a TD and to kick 1 measly FG

     

    Dak against the Bills:

     

    Was down 23-7 in the end of the third and ended his drive by famously missing zeke on the wheel route. 


    A top 5 QB would never

     Lamar in back-to-back losses against Chiefs and Browns

    46/77 (59.74%), 514 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT, 6.7 Y/A, 5.3 ANY/A (17 carries for 112 yards, 1 TD)

    56.8 and 60.2 QBR (vs 81.8 on the season)

     

    Russell Wilson against Ravens, Eagles and Cardinals

    49/97 (50.52%), 610 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT, 6.3 Y/A, 4.8 ANY/A

    67.6, 17.6 and 10.1 QBR (vs 69.8 on the season)

     

    Those are your 2 MVP favorites all season with some pretty bad games.  You can cherry pick some bad stats/games for pretty much any QB, but season long stats with larger sample size based on efficiency (and/or adjusted for opponent) tell a more accurate story.  And they tell a story of a top 5 QB named Dak Prescott imo.

    Posted in: Sports Discussion
  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from saadmurt >>
    Quote from MrJ >>
    Quote from Chasej3553 >>

    dak Is nowhere near a top 5 qb 

     Played like one in 2019. 4th in QBR, 1st in DYAR, 6th in DVOA, 6th in ANY/A, 6th in CPAE.

     

    Only other QBs ranked close to that high in all 5 metrics were Brees and Wilson.

     That's only against bad teams. Besides the Vikings game Dak didn't play like a top 5 qb against .500 teams or better until the fourth down 17+

    Dak in 1st-3rd QTRs:

    282/425 (66.35%), 3546 yards, 23 TD, 7 INT, 8.3 Y/A, 8.1 ANY/A

    Dak in 4th QTR:

    106/171 (61.99%), 1356 yards, 7 TD, 4 INT, 7.9 Y/A, 7.3 ANY/A

     

    Dak Leading or Tied:

    181/264 (68.56%), 2191 yards, 19 TD, 6 INT, 8.3 Y/A, 8.3 ANY/A

    Dak Trailing:

    206/331 (62.24%), 2703 yards, 11 TD, 5 INT, 8.2 Y/A, 7.5 ANY/A

     

    So Dak was worse in the 4th and when trailing, but all his stats were accumulated in 4th when they were losing big?

     

    The D in DVOA and DYAR stands for Defense-adjusted, as in adjusted to factor in quality of opponent, and QBR gives less weight to plays that happen when a game is out reach.

    Posted in: Sports Discussion
  • posted a message on NFL Discussion: Chiefs Super Bowl Champions!!!
    Quote from Chasej3553 >>

    dak Is nowhere near a top 5 qb 

     Played like one in 2019. 4th in QBR, 1st in DYAR, 6th in DVOA, 6th in ANY/A, 6th in CPAE.

     

    Only other QBs ranked close to that high in all 5 metrics were Brees and Wilson.

    Posted in: Sports Discussion
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